I was really disappointed with the 4th edition. D&D 4th edition (dnd4) is the Microsoft Vista of the Role Playing Game world. I have been playing D&D and bought D&D products for close to 30 years. When they went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. I thought that Wizards of The Coast (WoTC) did a great job in fixing a many of the problems in the game mechanics. You immediately felt like it was well thought out an well balanced. It didn’t take very much to convert to and come to love the new version. They did a great job of capturing the feel of the game but with a modified rule set. As soon as I got it, I couldn’t wait to use them. 3.5 was he best thing that ever happened to D&D.
I was excited for the 4.0 version because I expected them to continue to improve on the mechanics and streamline to the systems, especially those for combat and magic. The jump from 3.5 to 4.0 instead resulted in major foundational changes to the game. In this case, not just the rules but the actual feel of the game as well. No doubt 3.5 had some good features which needed improvement (two-weapon fighting, sorcerer class, etc.) but the basic system worked well and stayed true to the original. I compare dnd4 to Microsoft Vista because like vista it seems more cumbersome and complex than the original. Like Vista, dnd4 makes you want the publisher to pull it from the shelves and go back and work on it for another year or two before releasing it again.
I agree some other reviews that I’ve read which compare the new system to that of a Massively-Multiplayer Online (MMO) video game. I like playing MMOs. When I play an MMO, my focus is more on the mechanics and less on roleplaying. When I want to play an RPG, I’m far more interested in the interactions than the mechanics. In some cases it seems like they changed things for just for the sake of changing them. I think WoTC’s intention was to try to appeal to a younger audience. One that grew up playing MMOs. The danger in this, is that you run the risk of alienating your core audience. Which is what I’m afraid WoTC may have done.
There were a number of systems that worked very well in 3.5 that went out with the bathwater. The new systems seems overly complicated rather than simplified. One of my favorite parts about the 3/3.5 systems was the increased flexibility in customizing your character. 4.0 seems to reduce your options while increasing the complexity. I think that the new races and classes should have been saved for particular campaign settings or supplements (e.g. artificer and warforged in Eberron). They also need to consider backwards compatibility. Even if I wanted to move my campaign to dnd4 what am I supposed to do with the gnomish sorcerers? (Both gnomes and sorcerers were removed from the game) There does seem to be some good ideas like ritual magic but I think this should have been a modification to the existing system rather than a complete rebuild. The treasure system is better but limited in choices. I also like the idea of quest rewards.
Unlike 3.0/3.5, I’m in no rush to start using the new version or replacing any more of my extensive collection of expensive 3.0/3.5 manuals. I expect to be playing 3.5 for a long time to come. Now I’m looking forward to D&D 5th edition when they can fix all the things they screwed up in the 4th edition.
Friends Don’t Let Friends Play D&D 4E
Updates:
- This is another good review of D&D 4E that I found.
- Sign the Online Petition to get WoTC to continue to support D&D 3.5E.
Posted on: Friday, June 6, 2008
June 24th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I totally agree. I just cant shake the feeling, that every class now has spells. Part of encouraging roleplaying is to encourage some scope of realism (or to set up fantastic realism), and part of doing this is to have the classes be unique unto their own. Even if they are unbalanced, they did it the right way (even if accidental). Wizards started out as clumsy fools with a few spells, but grew to mighty archmages. Whereas a fighter seemed very specialized from the get go, but didnt have the power curve of the wizard.
I think this new edition failed horribly. It concentrates too much on combat now, as can be seen by a greatly reduced skill list and lack of extra-combat abilities.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I would have named the article
4th Edition = Critical Failure!
but otherwise I totally agree with the reviewer.
Removing the flexibility of the magical system is a HUGE no-no, battles are actually more complex (my first short adventure in the 3rd edition took me 4 hours to complete, while my first “encounter” in the 4th edition took me 6 Hours!!), and I really hate the “you are hit, and you get shifted/slided/whatever 3 squares” crap.
Not to mention that from RPG now the games feels just like a complex strategy game with no RPing whatsoever.
August 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
ROLERPLAY OR GAME MECHANICS. Can’t have both
Hello. Well I*m an old roleplayer of most kind of games. I’m a great fan of fantasy and thereby the D&D. Game mechanics and there function is something I can see clear through all my years of gaming and changing games to fit better for us players. So when the 4Edition was released I read through the rules and I loved them. The system was kind of flawless. It was beautifull, theoretically. Now we started to play and some major hangups came over us. THere seems to be something strange that makes it harder for us to roleplay. The battlegrid for an example with the very predetailed enviroments takes away the innen picture in every player of the room and that steals the feeling. Thats a no no. But we can’t just simply remove the battlegrid and play flying like in D&D 2Edition or in other rolegames, because the battle system wont allow us. It would interfier too much with the system itself. Its simply to much importance to know where I can “Shift” or on what square I cast my fireball so I might include as many orcs as possible. Its a meta gaming thinking where you want to max up the effects / dmg. When you do that it takes away room for the experience as a roleplaying event and the story grows thinn quickly. D&D 4Edition is more of a wargame than a roleplaying game and that makes me sick. All in my playinggroup is quite experienced too from many years of playing but we don’t know how to make 4Edition playable. Thereby I want to admit that the rules in 4Edition is very nice and smooth. Much easier than in 3.5 though you need the battlegrid and there is the dilemma. So the question comes down to this, do you want a roleplaying game or a wargame. 4Edition is not a good roleplaying game, its very hard to roleplay in battles atleast, but the system in the battles are very nice. So D&D 4E might be a roleplaying game for beginners maybe. I just cant hold back the tear when I say it. Our next attemt will be to use a simple nacked battlegrid and through out the preprinted maps that comes with the adventurers and just skiss up VERY simple the area and see if that leaves more room for the “inner picture” in each players head to be more forced for an imagination instead of looking down at that 2dimnensional battlegrid and replace your really cool inner picture of the situation with the battleboard and belives thats how it looks. Frustrated GM, I dont know what to do. If here is anyone out here who have experienced my problems and have found solutions for em I would gladly recive them here.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I was up and down about D&D 4e. I heard things I liked before it was released then things I really disliked. Then I decided to give it a try. The worst thing that could happen is I dislike it. Well after playing up until a week ago. I can say
“Thank you Wizards of the Coast for D&D 4e, Because now I can save my money for other things”
My group and I believe that Gary Gygax passed away not because of health issues. He died because they presented him D&D 4e just after its first print run. This is what he believe could(Did) have happened.
WotC: Gary check out the new D&D 4e.
Gary: Grabs the book and thumbs a few pages.
Gary: WTF?!?!?! Magic Missile can miss? WTF!!!
WotC: Game Balanc..
Gary:(Cutting them off) Grabbing his chest gripping his heart tightly and screaming “My legacy!!!” Then he hit the floor and passed away.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I totally agree. Editions 1 and 2 were great, editions 3 and 3.5 were awesome. The 4th edition, well… lets just call it a big step backwards (unless you like playing pokemon instead of D&D). I returned mine to the book store.
November 21st, 2008 at 8:29 am
The last sentence of the first paragraph is in error. Gygax was the best thing to happen to D&D.
My $0.02.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
One week after buying the box set of 4th Ed. I sold it for 40$ just to get that blasphemous edition out of my presence! I mean really messing up my mages come on!
December 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
One of my gaming troupes was really looking forward to it, even after buying the books and reading we we’re stoked. Yet after only a few sessions, we’ve called it off and started on Pathfinder. Here’s my collection of what’s good and bad.
Good:
-the damage and healing no longer has players drawing straws to be a cleric. In addition, the cleric no longer needs to be bogged down as the medic.
-having set hit points instead of rolling
-powers for other classes keeps wizards and clerics from being the main power source later in the game
-more simplified alignment system without so much game play affect
Bad:
-having the select powers also bogs down combat when you have both PCs and NPCs using different powers
-very little room for customization and classes seem to rigid
-too much emphasis on combat roles in the party which pigeon holes characters. Once again, fighters are the meat shields and nothing more.
In the end, I do like some of the new rules but those we can translate well into any existing 3.5 game or Pathfinder for that matter. Yet the new flaws just outweigh the new solutions.
March 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
failure its your site =D
4th edition rules in balance and gameplay, roleplay its about players not rules.. noobs -__-
March 17th, 2009 at 2:33 am
Hanariel, please go back to world of warcraft.
I agree with everything said here, everything seems horrible, terrible, and now with all of the player’s core rulebooks being so damn expensive, I feel completely doomed.
Maybe I can talk to my bookstore about ordering them, but I don’t know… I guess it’s worth a try. I’m not spending anywhere near $20 for a used player’s handbook with pages missing. No way in hell.
March 25th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Hanariel just defined my problems with 4e.
April 20th, 2009 at 9:16 am
4ed is just combat system. But we all can play combat on PC, or board wargame, the social gameplay WoTC kill, so I abandon the way of this company and her new system.
Now WoTC road is “The road to Hell”
May 13th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
There was no reason to release a 4th edition except to make money. The entire system is the brainchild of marketers and accountants. There is simply no reason to purchase this garbage. They don’t even want you reading the rules ahead of time because they know you won’t buy it. People who loved D&D invariably hate this edition. I’m glad I was able to see a friend’s (unwanted) copy of the PHB before even considering buying this absolute waste of money. Classes have been ruined, spells have been ruined, combat has been ruined. There is nothing about this system worth buying. If I had paid money for it, I would be demanding my money back. Not having spent any money on this, I can safely say I NEVER WILL. Utter failure, WoTC. Waste of paper, ink, and time. NO POINT TO THIS GARBAGE. I’m not even waiting for 5e. I will not be buying any more D&D products unless the entire franchise is acquired by “oldschool” gamers who know what D&D players like and want.